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Namek
Sept 20, 2013 19:17:57 GMT
Post by Walter on Sept 20, 2013 19:17:57 GMT
It's become pretty evident to me that Namek needs some nerfing. His skillset is basically impossible to dodge at melee range, nor is it all that risky for him to engage in melee combat with aegis up nigh-constantly in fights. On top of the usual items Namek players will get, it's almost never worth it to engage him in close range combat, barring his already rather powerful ranged capabilities as well. One attack and a spell and your damage against him is reduced by 76%. Most of the damage he'll be taking will come from himself rather than other heroes.
A suggestion I have is maybe to reduce the duration of aegis to 1.5 seconds or so. As is, it's mostly just something that's there in a fight rather than an ability you keep in time with incoming damage. Reducing the duration requires players to time the shield rather than just have it active for the whole fight.
Cinder's basically gotten the same problem that Iofur's rollout used to have, in that a hit is basically guaranteed in the event that the enemy hero is next to yours. Subsequent hits are also usually very simple to land. Though I don't think using the same solution Iofur got is a good idea. I thought that we might discuss what could be done here if anyone actually agrees that this is a problem.
For lava lance, it might be easier to stop if the enemies could see it on the ground beforehand. At a range, it's simple to guess whether or not Namek is aiming it, but in melee it's indistinguishable from normal combat.
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Namek
Sept 23, 2013 20:57:57 GMT
Post by Softmints on Sept 23, 2013 20:57:57 GMT
I think I've mentioned it before but I see it as a combination of issues: - Self-healing items like Barricade are too cheap/effective
- Voidmasochists more than cover his costs
How does increasing the life cost of Cinder from 8% to 9% sound? Aegis duration I have no problem decreasing, but as his primary survival mechanism I can't nerf it too hard.
Making Lava Lance's flower visible to enemies would mean he can't pretend to lance anymore . If we're being really particular about the melee-range thing, the solutions I've used on other abilities (like Rollout, Bleak) are reducing the effect for the first few frames, which is hard to represent graphically and totally unintuitive. I could make Cinder not inflict burn for the first second, or make it do nothing for the first second before it sparks into life...?
Is Namek actually used much in melee in any case? It feels like most of the time I play against him, it's Cinders from afar.
Plunder could probably do with a change, because I assume no-one levels it until last? Perhaps to something which doesn't improve his melee situation?
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Namek
Sept 23, 2013 23:43:36 GMT
Post by Walter on Sept 23, 2013 23:43:36 GMT
I think I've mentioned it before but I see it as a combination of issues: - Self-healing items like Barricade are too cheap/effective
- Voidmasochists more than cover his costs
How does increasing the life cost of Cinder from 8% to 9% sound? Aegis duration I have no problem decreasing, but as his primary survival mechanism I can't nerf it too hard.
I don't think that addresses Namek's damage output problem, though it helps his survivability problem. As for aegis, it depends on what you want it to be. Do you want it to be something he maintains over the duration of combat or something he times for when damage is imminent? I think his biggest problem when it comes to taking damage is aegis's uptime, armor, and health regen. Maybe you could have aegis have an active component that changes it from resistance to armor and vice versa? And make this graphically visible? (Resistance be purple, armor be the ivory it is now, only switches on re-application) It'd give him some weaknesses while not making him be countered by a certain damage type. Void masos are a problem all on their own. To be honest, they completely outpace the elves' wells, both in defending pushes and healing. Making Lava Lance's flower visible to enemies would mean he can't pretend to lance anymore . Flower can still be dropped outside vision, so the threat is still there. If we're being really particular about the melee-range thing, the solutions I've used on other abilities (like Rollout, Bleak) are reducing the effect for the first few frames, which is hard to represent graphically and totally unintuitive. I could make Cinder not inflict burn for the first second, or make it do nothing for the first second before it sparks into life...? I don't think those are great solutions either. Haven't been able to think of a suitable one. Maybe do something to the point of origin? I'm certain that this is a problem, still trying to think of something. Is Namek actually used much in melee in any case? It feels like most of the time I play against him, it's Cinders from afar. In the early laning where health is a problem, mostly yes. Mid-late game you might see that simply because Namek is so difficult and not worth it to fight in melee that other heroes simply won't engage him that way anymore. Basically all his abilities are free hits and any damage you do will be reduced by 76%. There's rarely a reason to engage on those grounds. Plunder could probably do with a change, because I assume no-one levels it until last? Perhaps to something which doesn't improve his melee situation? Essentially. Could give him something that has to do with burn. Fire resonance or something. Give him some kind of bonus for nearby burning victims? Could even play around with his regeneration being dependent on it.
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Namek
Sept 28, 2013 0:02:18 GMT
Post by alyssandra on Sept 28, 2013 0:02:18 GMT
It seems Namek suffers from the previous issues Abra did: he is far too tanky while being able to deal massive AoE damage quite easily.
Realistically, someone should be able to get 6 Barricades if they wanted to because that would mean they lack damage from items and won't be as effective. This is clearly not his issue though, as he can get many Barricades and still charge in and deal high DPS with his spells. So therefore, I think the issue lies within his personal numbers and the fact that he has two "shockwave" spells, regardless of the fact that they have a gimmick added to their aiming.
Perhaps Cinder can have a no-damage window similiar to Iofur, until a more elegant approach is decided upon, since players don't even have to aim Cinder from afar if they still want to do well with him.
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